Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Found a bug? Have a feature request? This is the place to talk about it.
dcibel
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:39 am

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by dcibel »

meloV8 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:39 am - No possibility to give your own name to the drivers or individual curves of the chart. Automatic name assignment is not very clear.
Just want to point out that the name assignment for drivers is generally the Model that you've entered in the driver editor T/S tab. Not an ideal solution but may help somewhat to make sure this entry is filled in when creating the driver files.
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meloV8
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:45 am
Location: Poland

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by meloV8 »

In the CAD Editor window I have the names of the speakers ( W0, T1, S2 ) and let's say it's ok, but I can't give my own name to the speakers. In the CAD Frequency window we already have D1, D2, D3 which is an unnecessarily confusing situation. But when I use Overlap option ( and I use it often ) it's already quite a mess, and if it comes to the History of Curves and automatic change of their color, it's one big mess.
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dcibel
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:39 am

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by dcibel »

I understand - If I recall the labels on the system SPL plot were a result of someone's suggestion a few years back - I personally find it doesn't provide any real useful data and just clutters up the plot display. There doesn't appear to be any method to turn off this extra information which would be nice, and I fully agree - it should use the driver component numbers and model names as entered. At the very least, if you include the model number in your driver file it will be populated in the component list.

I've always found that creating a multiplot that doesn't include the sum becomes rather tedious, having to plot each driver individually, flipping back and forth from the nodes tab to frequency tab, etc. If it were me, I'd change the "multiplot" checkbox to two selections for "show drivers" and "show sum".

An alternate solution to phase analysis is to use the polar plot section instead of trying to decipher an overly busy phase plot. The polar plot can provide similar insights into the phase relations without all the mess.
Bohdan
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:31 am

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by Bohdan »

Hi Lukasz,

As already pointed out, drivers' names are allocated as "Model" in the Editor dialogue box. So, each driver gets it's unique model name,
stored in driver file. In V27, I have increased the number of characters in this field to 18. It should be enough to enter a reasonably long model name.

Regarding "Overlap" window.
It does exactly what it is intended to do. You are asking to show overlapped SPL + Phase curves of a 3-way loudspeaker system.
It will be messy. That's why you have individual tabs to display individual parametric curves: SPL, Phase, Zin, etc...
You can easily control what is displayed on the Overlap window by turning ON/OFF individual drivers.
Also, you may consider using Compare tab well. When you right-click on the plotting area of the Compare tab, it will bring a label editor, so you can enter a name for each colour-coded curve.

Regarding "Zoom" window.
This functionality was implemented 20-25years ago on user's request. Personally, I have never used it. In V27, I have enabled this window to react to
Open/Short component values, but it will not be developed any further. It will stay limited to show only crossovers and saved on-axis driver horizontal curve with filer function. I would be happy to remove it altogether from the program.

Regarding Vertical Polar Plots.
I have implemented this in V27 already and all vertical data gets the same treatment as horizontal data, including it's own display windows. In addition, there are new display options for modelling horizontal and vertical data. I will be putting out a paper on my website showcasing all these in mid-January.

I am still going through your comments, and will provide more info soon.


Best Regards,
Bohdan
meloV8
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:45 am
Location: Poland

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by meloV8 »

Hi Bohdan!

Thank you for your answers, I will go straight to the topic.

It is of course possible to give a name in Driver Editor, but it appears only on the CAD Editor schema and should also be displayed in the CAD Frequency Domain window.

Overlap is a very useful feature, because only with it I can see not only the frequency but also phase or impedance graph at the same time. For me it is crucial to see the relationships between these charts on one screen while designing the crossover. Turning off the speakers is not a solution to the problem here, because when simulating a serial crossover, each speaker in a branch must be turned on.


For many years I've been using LspCAD program for simulation, which is similar to SE in some functions. (I'll show some screenshots that will illustrate various things). The main Graphs window has practically the same tabs as the CAD Frequency window in SE, but here there is an additional option to clone any tab. It is in a way similar to Zoom Window, but its functionality is more extended.Each of the charts can be freely edited in terms of the name, curve color and its course (continuous line, dashed line, etc., which is partly also in SE, but about that in a moment). Thanks to the Clone option we can open additional windows where you can track the different parameters of the simulated crossover on one screen, instead of pushing them on one overlay window. Times have changed a bit and our computers have high-resolution screens where you can fit more than one window and such Clone or Zoom Window function is very useful as long as it works like in LspCAD.
The Compare function is completely useless here. It is only useful if you want to fit several graphs on the screen, which can be described. In the process of designing the crossover, its usefulness is small.
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Now let's get back to editing curve colors and why curve history and automatic color assignment is an underdeveloped solution. We can improve the visibility of the graphs in the Overlap window by assigning continuous or dashed lines to the graphs and changing their thickness, but here a problem arises.
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If you enter continuous lines for the SPL curve, dashed lines for the Phase curve and dotted lines for Impedance, and disable Cycle Colour, the transparency of the graphs is good, but all Phase graphs have the same color shade, just like the SPL graphs. Turning Cycle Colour on, makes a total mess by overlaying random colors and continuity of curve lines. If this happens with a history of curves, it just makes a total mess.
That's why it's so important to enable the option to disable curve history and assign a constant color for each curve and line continuity type.
What is interesting, it is in the Windows Zoom window that the colors and line continuity is preserved and there is no curve history, so it works exactly as it should :)
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As for the measurements in the vertical axis, thank you very much for this change and I am looking forward to publishing it on your website.


Lukasz
Bohdan
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:31 am

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by Bohdan »

Hi Lukasz,

Thank you for illustrating your comments. It was very helpful. Here is what I have done so far.

1. Added a checkbox to turn off “system” frequency response during Multiplot option.
2. Driver’s raw SPL/Phase/Zin/ZinPhase/GrDel can be displayed for all drivers in the system as individual curves (previously, you could only display this data for a single, nominated driver).
3. Added Multiplot option to mouse controlled component tweaks.
4. More to come….

Reading your comments, I can see, that you have strong preferences for “component tweaking” in your design activities. There is nothing wrong with this approach, and you can accomplish quite a lot of tweaking in SoundEasy, albeit, the program works differently from other software packages available out there.

I am not here to persuade you away from your favourite tweaking, but there are more advanced options available to accomplish the design activities. By design, SoundEasy is advocating “optimizer approach” to crossover design. Each driver’s filter can be individually optimized to the desired target filter curve – most popular possibly being LR-type of crossover. When finished, the combined filter response and the SPL of the measured driver together perform as close to the selected filter target as possible.

There is very little, or no manual tweaking of components, because the drudgery of component tweaking is taken away by the automatic optimizer process. The optimizer can account for a user selected phase difference between drivers, and can also be constrained to certain Zin values. At the same time, the optimizer can “evaluate itself” by showing the Optimization Error – the degree of fit between the target curve and crossover+driver SPL. You can perform various optimizations for several components (I would recommend no more that 3-4) at any one time, and the Error will tell you where you’re going.

Anyway, I guess, you know all the above, so I’ll stop here, and go back to work.

Best Regards,
Bohdan
Bohdan
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:31 am

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by Bohdan »

Hi Lukasz,

Forgot one thing:

"Turning off the speakers is not a solution to the problem here, because when simulating a serial crossover, each speaker in a branch must be turned on."

Your comment above is incorrect. In series crossover, each speaker can be turned ON/OFF to correctly display SPL and Phase of the remaining drivers. When driver is OFF, it does not remove the driver physically from the network, and it's impedance is still correctly contributing to the network topology. Only the SPL/Phase of the driver is prevented from contributing to the overall, system SPL.

Best Regards,
Bohdan
meloV8
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:45 am
Location: Poland

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by meloV8 »

Hi Bohdan,

Thank you for your response and for making further changes to the program.

As far as the "optimizer approach" is concerned, I don't see any exception for SE, because the same optimizers are found in many other programs.The only difference is that SE does not allow to switch off curve history while working and assign any color to the curve permanently. I would like us to understand each other. I do not postulate to use manual alignment without using the Optimizer capabilities. It is completely different.I cannot imagine working without Optimizer, but in every other program I have used, there is no history of curves (or you can turn them off) and the program allows you to observe every change of parameter by refreshing the curve rather than writing down its history. This is how it works in Lspcad, VituxCAD, LEAP, Boxsim, SpeakerWorkshop, Xsim, FINE X and many others.
Even if someone would like to shape the crossover filtration by hand, I don't understand why the history of curves and wrongly assigned Cycle Color should interfere with this? I think it is worthwhile to use such options in the program that will make the work easier than difficult.
Sometimes I talk about SE with colleagues who also design speakers and consider buying SE, but if we come to the topic of Curve Stories and the lack of possibility to work in a component tweaking system, it is an inexplicable solution for them, discouraging to work in SE.
By introducing these changes, SE gains new possibilities, without losing anything at all.

In your free time, please see the following two links.

http://www.ijdata.com/LspCAD_optimizer.html
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tbC8doqkiE


Regards
Lukasz
Bohdan
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:31 am

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by Bohdan »

Hi Lukasz,

Your comment: "and the lack of possibility to work in a component tweaking system" is incorrect.

SoundEasy includes 4 methods of component tweaking described on pages 8.38-8.41 of the manual:
1. List Box and Slider
2. List Box and Cursor Keys
3. List Box and Cursor Key and Mouse Wheel
4. Direct Component Selection from Schematic + SHORT/OPEN function

In a system without curve history, you are forced to remember what the previous curve looked like, so you know where you are going.
In other words, are you making an improvement, or are you deteriorating the performance. Constant curve refreshing is a difficult system to use because each time you refresh - you loose the previous reference.

To make this easier for you, SoundEasy remembers the last 5 plotted curves. Therefore, you do not have to remember them. When you look at the last 5 colour-coded labels, you can clearly identify which curve was plotted first and which one was last. The same colour applies to the plotted curves and component values displayed next to the labels. Therefore, you know which curve corresponds to any given component value.
So the whole process is very clear, and you know exactly where you headed with the component tweaking.

This is how SoundEasy was designed to work.

Component tweaking is always only a supplementary function to the proper crossover design/optimization process. Even so, SoundEasy incorporates several methods to accomplish tweaking. As per my comments above, you have not convinced me of any superiority of other programs, therefore I do not plan to make any changes in this area.

Thank you for your other comments. They are helpful, and I am making some progress on them.

Best Regards,
Bohdan
dcibel
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:39 am

Re: Feature Request for SoundEasy V27

Post by dcibel »

I'd like to see the option to disable the curve history as well when adjusting component values. I can't imagine it being too difficult to implement. In fact, I'd love to see the multiplot fully re-plotted when adjusting component values. As it is, if more that one driver node is selected only the sum is re-plotted when adjusting component values.

You may think that the 5 plotted curves is making things easier when adjusting component values, but it's rather counter intuitive once you make the 6th change and the legend doesn't update to show the correct history of colours vs part value changes. If the plot colour legend updated to always show the last plotted colour at the bottom with correct history of plot colours that would help somewhat, but you may find that most users will turn this plot history off altogether if given the option.

The single pixel lines can sometimes be difficult to differentiate between colours, and changing the system option to 2 pixel line thickness is buggy, only plotting one line with 2 pixel thickness and the rest with one.
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